Re: Ruins and Quests

Russell Wallace (rwallace@vax1.tcd.ie)
Thu, 13 Aug 1992 22:43 GMT

There is a lot of discussion at the moment on the idea of eliminating
extended factions, and instead having a few player characters interacting
with a largely computer-maintained world. I think this idea is fundamentally
wrong for this reason:

Suppose players are interacting with a largely computer-maintained world.
Is this going to create an interesting game? (Note that if it is, a single-
user version of Olympia could easily be created.) It turns out that it is
not. This is because everything in such a world (e.g. ruins, monsters etc.)
must be generated by an algorithm. Once you've seen enough of the computer-
generated features to understand how the algorithm works, they're no
longer interesting (if you've seen three or four dungeons, you've seen them
all). This implies that there is really no point in relying on computer-
generated ruins, monsters, orc invasions etc. for the main element of the
game (though by all means implement them as icing on the cake if you've
programming time to spare).

Instead, the main point of the game must be interaction with game entities
controlled by human beings. In a human-moderated game, the moderator is
primarily responsible for this. In a computer-moderated game such as
Olympia, the other players are responsible for this. Thus, the game world
must be primarily created by the players rather than the computer, otherwise
it will not be very interesting.

This implies the need for extended factions, which are required for things
like armies, trading companies, components of political systems (there
wouldn't be much point in trying to create a Southlands Council if each
player only controlled half a dozen characters) etc. Such things are the
basic building blocks of the Olympia world.

As a case in point, consider:

25: 814: Combat report: Dr. Pain [814] attacks Ellemir [1485] in
25: 814: Pesbrand [359]!
25: 814:
25: 814: Dr. Pain [814], player character, armor 4, skills: combat 1,
25: 814: wearing a faceless black helm., stacked over:
25: 814: 1) The Hammer of Pain [2040], number: 15, armor 3,
25: 814: skills: combat 4, faction [814], carrying a black
25: 814: banner with silver hammer
25: 814: 2) The Red Company [1376], number: 16, armor 3,
25: 814: all mounted, skills: combat 4, equestrian 1,
25: 814: faction [814], with blood red pennants flying from
25: 814: spears.
25: 814: 3) The Taken [1321], number: 14, armor 3, skills:
25: 814: combat 3, faction [814], blank-eyed men with no hope
25: 814: 4) Toadkiller Dog [1993], number: 23, armor 2, skills:
25: 814: combat 4, faction [814]
25: 814: 5) The Snake Company [2002], number: 15, armor 3,
25: 814: skills: combat 4, faction [814], carrying a black
25: 814: banner with snake rampant.
25: 814: 6) Bitter Victory [1580], number: 49, armor 1,
25: 814: faction [814], marching to hollow drums
25: 814: 7) Skull Crackers [1585], number: 55, armor 1,
25: 814: faction [814], armor 7, carrying shields with skulls
25: 814: 8) Brothers of the Night [1468], number: 4, skills:
25: 814: combat 3, prisoner, faction [814]
25: 814: 9) Vengeance Company [1034], number: 15, armor 3,
25: 814: skills: combat 3, faction [814], carrying black
25: 814: banners
25: 814: 10) Demon Lords [1424], number: 30, armor 3, skills:
25: 814: combat 1, faction [814], wearing demon-head helms
25: 814: 11) The Anvil of Pain [2055], number: 15, armor 3,
25: 814: skills: combat 4, faction [814], carrying a black
25: 814: banner with silver anvil
25: 814: 12) The Faceless One [1330], individual, armor 1,
25: 814: faction [814], a man with a blank mask for a face
25: 814: 13) Carrina [1324], individual, skills: combat 1,
25: 814: prisoner, faction [844]
25: 814: 14) Keen Eye Jack [1352], individual, prisoner
25: 814: 15) The Black Company [1301], number: 13, armor 4,
25: 814: all mounted, skills: combat 6, archery 5,
25: 814: equestrian 1, faction [814]
25: 814: 16) Ten'Saroth [1475], number: 15, armor 3, skills:
25: 814: combat 3, faction [814], colorfully dressed and
25: 814: juggling live chickens.
25: 814: Ellemir [1485], individual, armor 3, faction [818],
25: 814: stacked over:
25: 814: 1) Tagget [818], player character, armor 3, skills:
25: 814: combat 1
25: 814: 2) Elven Archers [1463], number: 9, armor 3, skills:
25: 814: combat 1, archery 2, faction [818]
25: 814: 3) Brother Tovy [1476], individual, armor 3, skills:
25: 814: combat 1, faction [818]
25: 814: 4) Renaldo [852], player character, armor 3
25: 814: 5) sappers [1890], number: 3, armor 2, faction [852]
25: 814: 6) Galic [1876], number: 53, armor 1, skills: combat 1,
25: 814: faction [852]
25: 814: 7) Remar [1605], number: 3, armor 2, faction [852]
25: 814: 8) A Gaggle of Whores [1982], number: 4, prisoner
25: 814: 9) Wood Ninja's [1622], number: 4, armor 2,
25: 814: faction [852]
25: 814: 10) The Bitches with Bows [1877], number: 6, armor 2,
25: 814: skills: archery 0, prisoner
25: 814: 11) Longshot [864], individual, armor 3, faction [852]
25: 814: 12) The Entertainers [1924], number: 5, armor 3,
25: 814: faction [852]
25: 814: 13) Shakti [871], player character, garbed in long,
25: 814: loose-fitting safron & gold robe
25: 814: 14) Arjuna [2010], individual, armor 3, skills:
25: 814: combat 1, archery 1, faction [871], wearing a white,
25: 814: cotton tunic over blue trousers
25: 814: 15) Sisters of Kali [2013], number: 15, skills:
25: 814: combat 1, faction [871], robed & hooded in red with
25: 814: black raven insignia
25: 814: 16) Mawgli [2020], individual, faction [871], a small,
25: 814: slight lad scantily dressed and barefoot
25: 814: 17) Taporin Flemisade [806], individual, prisoner
25: 814: 18) Myrtha [873], player character, armor 3, skills:
25: 814: combat 1
25: 814: 19) confusion [2032], number: 7, faction [873]
25: 814: 20) Brian Cohen [2057], individual, skills: combat 0,
25: 814: faction [873]
25: 814: 21) Great Grunts [2073], number: 64, skills: combat 0,
25: 814: faction [873]
25: 814: 22) Mandy Cohen [1054], number: 91, skills: combat 0,
25: 814: faction [873]
25: 814: 23) Fat Frank [1056], individual, faction [873]
25: 814: 24) Tharkin the Cool [811], player character, armor 3,
25: 814: skills: combat 3
25: 814: 25) scouts [1879], number: 5, armor 2, skills: combat 2,
25: 814: faction [852]
25: 814: 26) The Mistress [1337], individual, skills: combat 1,
25: 814: prisoner
25: 814: 27) Ham the weather wizard [1614], number: 32,
25: 814: faction [872], armor 10, heavily armed, fat and bald
25: 814: 28) Pesbrand Symphony Orchestra [2004], number: 42,
25: 814: skills: combat 0, faction [872], armor 10, available
25: 814: for weddings and bar mitzvahs
25: 814: 29) gold diggers [1552], number: 50, armor 1, skills:
25: 814: combat 1, faction [872], armor 10, heavily armed,
25: 814: men with good picks
25: 814: 30) Daisy [1845], individual, armor 3, skills: combat 1,
25: 814: faction [872], armor 10, heavily armed, feable but
25: 814: cute
25: 814: 31) Agrajag [1937], individual, faction [814], carrying
25: 814: a compass and a map

versus:

10: 814: Dr. Pain arrives in Pesbrand with 500 peasants.

A slight difference in interest level, no?

- Russell


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